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Here is how to passive shield tank for those that want know.

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Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.09 19:56:00 - [1] Originally by: Workdawg thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge? No you would get less recharge rate and furthermore the 2.4 multiplier is only in effect for infinitly small time so it is to be expected that you would experience a recharge a little bit less than that. I analytically proved to myself that the maximum recharge of the curve peaks at just over 29%. Originally by: Workdawg also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers Depends on your cap. If you have a large capacity but high recharge time you might be better off with using a recharger but for most cases it's better to use cap battery but that it is much harder to fit. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.09 19:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Workdawg thanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge? No you would get less recharge rate and furthermore the 2.4 multiplier is only in effect for infinitly small time so it is to be expected that you would experience a recharge a little bit less than that. I analytically proved to myself that the maximum recharge of the curve peaks at just over 29%. Originally by: Workdawg also, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargers Depends on your cap. If you have a large capacity but high recharge time you might be better off with using a recharger but for most cases it's better to use cap battery but that it is much harder to fit. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.10 13:49:00 - [3] She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds. Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.10 13:49:00 - [4] She's just saying how much she recharges over 4 and 5 seconds so she can compare with the large and extra large shield booster. So when large shield booster repairs 160 every 4 seconds her passive shield tank repairs 172 in for seconds. Similarly when X-large shield booster repairs 400 every 5 seconds the passive shield tanker repairs 215 ever 5 seconds. Of course Pottsay ignores the fact that active shield tankers still have shield that recharges to __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.27 17:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Imhotep Khem There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its a. going to give you more shield up front. b. going to give you a larger sweet spot. And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements. It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.27 17:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Imhotep Khem There is an easy way to tell wether or not to use a shield extender or a recharger. Rechargers give 15% rate increase. The rate increase you get from a shield extender is equivalent to its size vs your current shield size. So if your extender is 15% of your current size, then use the extender. I'd say use it down to about 10% as well since its a. going to give you more shield up front. b. going to give you a larger sweet spot. And of course that is why it has more fitting requirements. It's a nice method although you don't use 15%. 15% reduction in time gives you 1/(1-0.15) = 1.176 or 17.6% increase in recharge rate. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described? p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%. I checked just in case what the deal is with cap rechargers. On my ferox I have base cap recharge 399 sec recharge time and when I put the t2 cap recharger online ig goes to 399*0.8 = 319 (yeah I now I'm supposed to round it up to 320 but that's how it shows up in EVE). So it is wrong to say that pdu's II boost shield recharge rate by 8.5 it does lower the recharge time by 8.5 which is not the same thing. The same applies for damage modules which is why many people say that the skill rapid firing gives you the most bang for buck. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Ahh so you've done the math then? Because the module description says 'recharge rate' and rate is units/time. If it had said 'recharge time' then I would use your equation. Is the module mis-described? p.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%. I checked just in case what the deal is with cap rechargers. On my ferox I have base cap recharge 399 sec recharge time and when I put the t2 cap recharger online ig goes to 399*0.8 = 319 (yeah I now I'm supposed to round it up to 320 but that's how it shows up in EVE). So it is wrong to say that pdu's II boost shield recharge rate by 8.5 it does lower the recharge time by 8.5 which is not the same thing. The same applies for damage modules which is why many people say that the skill rapid firing gives you the most bang for buck. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.28 15:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:16:03 Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:15:27 That is because rate of fire on guns is given as the time between shots and not shots per seconds as rate of fire would suggest. Rate of fire on 150mm rails should be 1/4.25 = 0.235 shots per second. You notice what I was talking about when you calculate damage over time ( damage/(time between shots) ). So for the 150mm rail you get. 2.75/4.25 = 0.647 dps 5% bonus to "rate of fire" gives you 2.75/(4.250.95) = 2.75/4.0375 = 0.681 dps but a 5% incrase to the dot is only 0.6471.05 = 0.679 dps Edit: don't tell the devs though they will nerf it __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.12.28 15:15:00 - [10] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:16:03 Edited by: Dust Puppy on 28/12/2004 15:15:27 That is because rate of fire on guns is given as the time between shots and not shots per seconds as rate of fire would suggest. Rate of fire on 150mm rails should be 1/4.25 = 0.235 shots per second. You notice what I was talking about when you calculate damage over time ( damage/(time between shots) ). So for the 150mm rail you get. 2.75/4.25 = 0.647 dps 5% bonus to "rate of fire" gives you 2.75/(4.250.95) = 2.75/4.0375 = 0.681 dps but a 5% incrase to the dot is only 0.6471.05 = 0.679 dps Edit: don't tell the devs though they will nerf it __________ Capacitor research

Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.02.28 18:17:00 - [11] Originally by: James Lyrus Have you tried running the calculation on a celestis? I've been trying to run the numbers on a caracal, and am starting to reach the conclusion that it's just not feasible. You're basic recharge rate is 750/1000 * 2.5 = 1.875 shield points per sec. Even if you fill all your slots with medium shield extenders, and your low slots with 20% relays, this'll turn out at Med 3 ( 3x400 shield, total of 1950) Lo 4 20% shield power relays, Recharge time 1000 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8 = 410s (please, someone correct me if I have the logic on recharge rate wrong, I'm assuming 20% recharge boost is a .8 multiplier on the recharge time) You get 1950/410 * 2.5, which is 11 hp/sec. Just about compares to a small shield booster. (Of course, you skills here also become a factor, so this number is a little on the low side). That lot add up to 225Mw, and 225cpu (basic). IMO you'll have a bad time with that on L3 missions, and it's probably worth not passive tanking and using stand-off tactics (this method will, as is mentioned, completely kill your cap, which means a fast disengage with afterburners isn't much of an option) I'm looking at a similar setup on a caracal, but can't really figure how to accomplish it without sacrificing serious amounts of firepower. Has anyone tried this type of configuration on a cruiser? Don't think this is feasible on all ships and as shield power relay is the best module to decrease recharge rate then lows are more important than meds. Fitting a relay always gives you 1/.8 = 1.25 or 25% increase in recharge rate but the shield extenders depends on the shield you have. So dumping shield extenders on it only get's you that far. Also with perfect skills you can increase your shield recharge rate by 1.25/0.75 = 1.6667 or 66.7% which is quite a bit. Passive shield tanking should also be worse than active tanking as it has the huge advantage of using zero cap. Also you always have full defense on where as in my shield tanking setup I can never run the shield booster all the time freeing up slots to use on other things. Having said that then passive tanking is certainly viable for some situations. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.05.25 23:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Eucarid I just found this post. What a marvelous post. This and Dust Puppy's post on cap are my 2 favorite posts so far. 8 pages was a lot, so I might have missed this... The result you get will vary based on the actual firing rate of your opponent. Imagine for a moment you are getting hit with a gun that does 10 damage every 0.2 seconds (50 dps), and your 2.5x recharge rate is 50 per sec. Your shield would reduce to 30% and pretty much stay there (continue to recharge at 50). Now instead consider a gun that does 200 damage every 4 seconds (again 50 dps). What will happen is that your shield (now down to 30%) will recharge at 50 for a short while, but you will go above 30% shield, so the recharge rate will drop below 50. After 4 seconds your recharge rate has fallen, so you will not have gained the full 200, so the next strike from the gun will put you below 30%, and so on. This might be why you feel your equations don't always work quite right. So the "burstiness" (new word :) of the gun will alter the effect. Add to that the burstiness of the shield recharge rate, and things get tricky. Since an active shield recharger is also bursty but its recharge rate is not dependance on your current shield value (or is it), it changes the usefulness to some degree. Sorry, I'm not being very clear, I'm working long hours and I'm tired... Anyway, it leads me to conclude if you want to break a tank like this, make sure all your guns fire simultaneously to increase the burstiness effect. Of course, this will have a similarly negative effect on your cap. I love the way all these relatively simple concepts add up to such complex overall behaviour, and that there is no clearly uber way to play eve. Yep I get what you are saying and you are right. It is possible to break the tank even if your dot would indicate otherwise. Getting a few wreckings in one volley probably would do it but Pottsey has much more hands on experience on that than I and it might be that this has never happened but theoretically it's possible (I've never tried passive tanking ). So when passive tanking giving two shield setups with the same recharge rate I would always take the one with more shield hp, the same of course applies to cap. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.06.02 13:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Chris Henry Originally by: Jozzer Question: "Is it possible to play EVE succesfully without a maths grade? " Im increasingly think 'no'. Oh and cough BUMP! Why isn't this extremely usefull guide a sticky yet? It is in the modules sticky. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2005.08.09 12:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Apoll Now I came upon the Cyclone (interesting BC) and I'm consindering to go for Passive tank (let's use that 5% per level boost). Fyi that 5% per level boost is 5% extra boost per level on shield boosters.

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